Living Fullness

Can men and women be JUST friends Part 3

Part 3 of the conversation where Padre and Stina tie up the loose ends, including some common arguments that are often presented for why men and women cannot be JUST friends, and their response to this. 
Padre outlines that men and women are made for communion/togetherness, but to pretend this is impossible outside of romantic relationship is limiting. There is a unique level of communion in marriage, but this is not the only path of communion with one another.
'Our thoughts and desires are subject to reason, not the other way around' - Padre
Stina questioned whether Jesus would have warned Mary Magdalene to not befriend the disciples as she followed him, in case that should cause a romantic attraction between them and be deemed uncharitable. 
Padre and Stina's response then, is that male and female friendships are possible with appropriate boundaries, and disagree that all relationships of opposite sex will necessarily form a romantic attraction. 
If it's not possible to be friends beyond romantic attraction, then how can we expect fidelity in marriage, after all, there is no Altar Switch (as Sarah Swafford would say). Men and women can't then look at the beauty of one another without indulging their sexual desires in a selfish manner, and it tells us that human sexuality has no other function other than procreation which is NOT a Christian attitude to the body.
The Body is the means through which we express our masculine and feminine genius, and serve others, and through the body the truth of who I am and who lives in me is brought to light.
 
Isn't it most charitable to simple avoid this kind of relationship, so that there is no risk of this happening? Stina responds that in some relationships this may be appropriate, but there are two things to consider.
1. We cannot assume responsibility for another persons thoughts and desires, to take that responsibility away from them, places a limit on their capacity and their free will
2. Risk is there for 2 reasons, The first is to encourage us to safeguard the relationship, and the second is to give us courage to step outside of ourselves to make a gift of ourselves in service of the other. How can we begin to do that, if our first response is to avoid the opposite sex?
Interestingly many of the arguments given by Christian circles tend to be the same as the atheistic secular world. 
Our hosts would love to hear your thoughts, or tell us if you disagree and why, we welcome the dialogue.
Make contact either via our Facebook Group  OR on Instagram
 
Truth Beauty and Goodness (T.B.G)
Padre - Consecration to St Joseph Click here Or Join the Facebook Group
Stina - Bible in a Year Podcast (with Fr Mike Schmitz) By Ascension Press Click here  
 

Can men and women be JUST friends? Part 2

The conversation continues about whether or not men and women can be JUST friends. In this episode, Padre and Stina, have a look at a few different Christian examples, including Scripture and saints. 
These include: Paul and Phoebe in Romans 16; 1 Timothy 5:1-2 'Do not rebuke an older man but encourage him as you would a father, younger men as brothers, older women as mothers, younger women as sisters in all purity'; Francis and Clare of Assisi, John of the Cross & Rose of Lima, John Paul II & Anna Teresa Tymieniecka.
With the examples of men and women who have gone before us, who have successfully walked the path of holy friendship, why can't we?
We are first called to be brothers and sisters in Christ, and the way that is expressed can also be through friendship.  
This is a charged topic, so get in touch with us with your thoughts, comments, and any questions. If you're in a particular friendship that seems sticky, or unsure about, get in touch, we'll help if we can. 
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T.B.G
Padre - Rector of Vianney College, Fr. Peter Thompson's caring nature
Stina - The Chosen Series   you can also view Season One on youtube

Can Men and Women be JUST Friends Part 1

Here at last is the episode most people have been waiting for, can men and women be JUST friends? Padre and Stina tackle this question head on but there is so much to cover it will be split into 3 episodes. They talk about some of the thoughts presented to us by the world around us, our entertainment industry, as well as some Christian perspectives, that strangely enough agrees with what the world at large has to say.
One presumption is that all male and female friendships end in romantic or sexual relations, and another is that it's simply not realistic; listen to the episode to find out what our hosts had to say. 
There is not as much content around friendship as there are for other relationships, hence why Virtue Ministry is hosting this podcast; Living Fullness. One of the goals of Virtue Ministry is to assist and encourage dialogue and to give language to different elements of relationships so that we can have more fulfilling relationships. Please see www.virtueministry.org.au for more
 
T.B.G
Padre - Watching someone pass away with peace and dignity. 
Stina - Virtue Challenge with the Holy Family based on advent reflections from Ascension Presents
 
 

Female Friendships - a chat with Stina and her friend, Caitlin Den-Bakker

In this episode the tables have turned, with Padre asking Stina and her friend Caitlin a series of questions on female friendships. 
Caitlin is a former teacher and a current public servant in Victoria. She is passionate about religious education and is a Campion College graduate. Caitlin is currently completing her qualifications as a nutritionist and is part of a project called My Daily Rosary, which includes free rosary audio with and without meditations. www.mydailyrosary.com
Some of the questions asked by Padre include; When women get together, what do you talk about? is the stereotype of shallow topics of conversation true? do you talk about men? and when you haven't seen each other for a while, is it true that it gets a bit manic, animated and mayhem like? How do women express their affection for one another? and towards guys? Are there any behaviours of men that are unhelpful to women? Do women ever feel confused about their feelings for a guy? How do women typically deal with conflict in their friendships with women?
Have a listen to the full episode and join the Living Fullness facebook group
https://www.facebook.com/groups/livingfullness
 
 

Male Friendships - a Chat with Padre and his friend, Christopher Gilroy

In this episode, Stina combined the questions of her women tribe and light heartedly interrogates Padre and his friend, Christopher Gilroy, about male friendships. 
Christopher is married to his wife Monika, and together they have a young Son, Jeremiah. Christopher is currently working with the Catholic Schools Youth Ministry Australia, in Canberra and a student of Bachelor of Theology.  
Some of the questions covered in this episode includes; when guys get together what do you talk about? How do guys express 'I love you' to  each other? What do you value in your friendships with other men? do guys ever get confused about their feelings for a woman? and what are some things women do that can be unhelpful in friendship? what makes male friendships fulfilling?
The episode includes everything from being jovial, discussing what a basic dad looks like, to cultural discourse, to loyalty and accountability, and social etiquette when getting to know someone new. 
Have a listen to the podcast and let us know what you think.
Christopher and his friend, Fr Trenton, are almost ready to launch their own podcast 'Melt like Wax'. Make sure you look that up in a few weeks time. 

Friends with Benefits - what's the deal?

In this episode of Living Fullness, the hosts tackle ‘friends with benefits’ and the spectrum of thought that people have about this form of relationship.
Our climate says it’s no big deal, so why are you making it into a deal? There’s a spectrum. Here it is: Some say Sex is important, has meaning and is intimate, meant for only ‘the special someone’ or ‘special someone’s where the relationship is particularly deep’.
Towards the other end of the spectrum is that Sex is sometimes allotted like a diary entry: There’s an implicit commitment, and expectation from the start. Some will say sex is a biological function which can be used at any time and place, with only one moral quality - consent. It’s a mutual agreement, If you and I agree and give informed consent then the behaviour is perfectly acceptable. In this view there is no meaning behind sex beyond the immediate sense pleasures experienced in the act itself.
Then there’s what a Christian believes and how the work of John Paul II helps us understand the framework better. Listen to the episode to find out more.
For more information on Theology of the Body look to Fire Up Ministries - https://fireupministries.com/ and the Chastity Project - https://chastity.com/
T.B.G
Padre – An old mentor continuing to guide the way Stina – Speaking engagement with a Primary School

Trapped in the Friendzone

In this episode, Padre and Stina, talk about the dreaded friendzone. What is it? – It's a place where men and women dread going, where we feel trapped with unreciprocated feelings of attraction. A place where we feel disposed of something good, something that should be ours, that we can’t have.
Unrequited love - A love or attraction which is not reciprocated
This friendzone space can feel like a doom and gloom place that we’re stuck in. It’s a place where we have an expectation and a hope, and they’re not being met because they’re not rooted in reality. This is quite the tragedy. All this time and energy being spent in the friendzone could be spent being an actual friend. Not the crush that is built up in our head, but instead a person we can have a mutually enriching friendship with.
 
What we see in the friendzone is unrequited love that is not grieved, and instead self-pitied. This is not the place of men and women, this is a place of boys and girls who have not learned how to grieve for unfilled romantic attraction and love, and then move forward in a self-giving manner.
Feeling forced into the friendzone - If they do not love us, they have nothing to inspire or compel us to how we ought to respond. We are not stuck there, we choose to stay there. So, we can choose to move out of that space, by spending time and energy on more productive things than wallowing in self-pity. Learning what to do with those thoughts and feelings that we have that will not be reciprocated.
God sees things in an eternal now – acting with integrity and being honest, and having the conversation about our attraction leaves the door open for a future friendship to form even if it is not possible in the here and now.
The way to move forward is to have the conversation – this thing has happened, it’s here. Simply removing yourself from an established friendship may not be the most charitable thing to do, as it may leave the other in a world of confusion. So, we need to determine the closeness of the relationship already established and work out how much honesty is appropriate, and then determine what needs to happen moving forward. Even if that means not being able to see each other as friends moving forward. It’s ok to admit that, and not just ok, its loving.
There is also the possibility for a romantic relationship to flourish, BUT a DTR must take place first, where we move out of the friendzone. Integrity and Clarity builds trust.
‘He/She is not for me’ is such a freeing thing – to be a gift to the other, and this moves us from a space of ‘here is what I want’  to ‘here is what I have to give’.   
Special appearance – Sauron voice over
 
T.B.G
Ordinations - Congratulations to Fr Cyprian Onuorah and Deacon Connell Perry
Fr Byrnes – Ordination – Padre shares two particular moments that were highlights; the laying of hands and the sign of peace – ‘this man is now my brother; it’s a new member of my family’.
Stina – The Testimony of a women she had recently met, and the way that God has worked the timing of things in her life and the trust she has with God.

LOVE vs USE in relationships

In this episode our hosts cover Love and Use. 
What is love?
The goal is willing the good of the other, yet there can be various expressions of love. Padre speaks about 4 types of Love the Greeks use ‘Filius, Storge, Eros and Agape’ and the differences between then.
Then they ask the question, Why is the opposite of love note hate, but use?
AND What is at the core of Use?  Our hosts suggest that if we allow someone to be used, at the core of us, we believe that we too are objects to be used. We need to relearn this. When we see use in our relationships when we’re being used, there is also an added responsibility on us, out of love, willing the good of the other, to gently point out to the other that you’re noticing patterns of use here.
What about when we’re watching some one we care about be used, like a friend who is being used by their significant other. Our hosts suggest a template to use in handing these difficult conversations. 
This episode also covers examples of friendships in Scripture as well as a beautiful Quote from Scott Hahn. The gospel says that man is someone to be loved and must not be reduces to a thing to be used.
References in the Episode
Fulton Sheen ‘Always remember to love people, and use things, rather than to love things and use people’.
Karol Wojtyla (Pope John Paul II) – Love and Responsibility
T.B.G
Padre - Private Retreat
Stina - Reflection on Luke Chapter 5- The Paralytic
 
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DTR - Clarity instead of Messing around in a relationship

Last week's episode looked at romance from friendship and what to do about it. In this episode, the hosts pull apart the need for and the process of having a DTR - Defining the Relationship Conversation, especially when romantic attraction has formed in one or both people in a relationship.
Its not a complicated and daunting concept. Its quite simply 'A Conversation', about addressing what is already going on and seeking clarity within that. Remembering that true friends will the good of the other, and therefore don't want their friends to be left in confusion or be messed around with. 
One of the many things a person communicates when they initiate a DTR is ‘I don’t want to string you along, you’re worth more than being played around with.’ This is both attractive and loving. 
Our hosts explore if beyond the DTR, relationships have to end if there is no romance? Not necessarily.
Padre also introduces the concept of 'Friends in motion' as coined by Sarah and Andrew Swafford.
It’s ok for the possibility of a romantic attraction coming to be to exist. It doesn’t mean it has to form into a romantic relationship. It simply means it will need to be addressed with a DTR.
In the event that one person has formed an attraction and the other does not reciprocate, our hosts suggest an alterative way and showcase unrequited love through a MacGyver example.
The most common pathway of romantic relationships is to meet someone, any one, date for a while, and once it becomes serious then take into consideration different aspects that require attention in order to mould it into a suitable relationship. In some aspects, it starts off easier because we’re riding the wave of heightened passions and emotions. But after some time of having invested time and energy, then taking stock of all the things that aren’t working well, makes it very hard to correct things in order to make the relationship work. An attitude of ‘We have enough love and our love will fix it.’ 
Even just having to learn when someone says ‘I love you’ it may not mean exactly what you think it means, because we do have a limited language and we have a culture that’s very quick to romanticise and sexualise things.
This is a common, but very messy path to take. Our hosts suggest the NPR - Natural Progression of a relationship (see previous podcasts) as a better pathway to healthy relationships. 
At the end of the day, chemistry can always come from a good friendship, but a good friendship cannot always come from chemistry.
 
It’s important to know ‘who am I’ before I engage in a romantic relationship with someone.
Stina also shares a personal example of where DTR has been very successful in her own life. 
It’s not the most difficult conversation you will have in your life, it’s not the easiest either but the clarity that comes from it, is entirely worth it.
T.B.G
Stina - Photograph of a cell
Padre - Child at church with a winning smile
 
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Romance and attraction out of Friendship

In this Episode our hosts talk about attraction and romance that can come from a Friendship; and debunk a couple of claims. 
Claim 1 – If you’re friends, you cannot become romantically interested. FALSE
Claim 2 – Male and Female friends will inevitable become romantically involved. FALSE
Claim 3 - Christianity shuns the body, as body bad, only the soul is good. FALSE. Christianity says the body is not just a shell but an essential part of who we are. We’re not complete in heaven until we get out bodies back.
Society likes to say all attraction is sexual. FALSE. We can be drawn to a number of people for different reasons. If we can’t accept that attraction is possible outside of romance, then we can’t have friends. Because the whole notion of friendship is that there is something about someone that we’re drawn to.
However, in instances where romantic attraction does come a friendship,  prudence is needed in order to work out how to move forward from here with this attraction present and our response should always recognize the beauty of the human person, rather a focus on serving our own base desires.
In the next episode our hosts will look at how this conversation can go through a DTR - Define the relationship conversation.
T.B.G
Padre - Growth of 1st year Seminarians
Stina - First time mothers and the way they grow as a whole person. 
Find out more about our mission, blogs, joining our prayer tribe OR booking a speaker at -
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